Surely, secular Ashkenazim are the most anti-racist major constituency in Israel, which is the exact opposite of what you want if “keeping your cities from turning into African slums” is a key concern.
That’s kind of the quandary across the West: the secular intelligentsia is correct in many minor ways - and enjoys the social cachet for their bien pensant beliefs - but incorrect about the core, essential questions.
i remember going to that bus station as a kid. it was a shabby area then, long before eritreans started showing up; it was pretty much exactly as shabby when i was last there at the end of 2022. maybe the situation has dramatically worsened since but frankly tel aviv is, for the most part, a kinda shabby place. lots of crumbling plaster and peeling paint and buildings put up hastily in the 1950s. the people who live there seem to like it fine, and tbh it’s got a lot more charm than the aesthetic monstrosities frummers like to live in with loads of white and gold everywhere. also “next door to tottenham” is a very funny way of describing stamford hill
They don't seem to be fine with it round there, since they have all fled
I lived in South Tottenham (north Stamford Hill) for a year and half. I used to walk to/from Seven Sisters Tube station every so often. It was 'diverse', but nothing like this.
“fled” is a bit histrionic. areas around big transport interchanges tend to be vaguely seedy, low-rent, inhabited by transient or menial workers in informal housing. (i should know, i’m gentrifying one now.) used to be that a lot of the people in neve sha’anan were palestinians from gaza overstaying work permits. tel aviv no longer runs on palestinian labour, so now it’s eritreans and sudanese. the fact that there are people who live in these vaguely insalubrious conditions is why nice libs in neve tzedek can get sushi any time on wolt. i don’t like it either but calm down, it’s not the apocalypse.
you’re right that tel aviv bus station is worse than seven sisters tube station. this is because britain is, in general, a cleaner, more orderly, more efficient, and generally better country than israel.
I came here to say this, too. As soon as I got to the words "Tel Aviv Bus Station" I started laughing because I knew exactly where this was going. I had an identical experience, except that mine took place in 2016, and there were zero non-Israelis. The place is and has always been a shithole
This article really does make you (Mr. Non-Zionism) look like you have a major blind spot about Israel, because of your conclusions. The Tel Aviv Bus Station issue is not an immigration issue at all. It predates the immigrants by decades.
Since this is my first comment on your post, I'll add that I've been enjoying your Israel/Palestine stuff. Ironically, most Israelis don't encouter Palestinians in their day-to-day unless they live in the settlements, so your lack of in-person experience with them - and your good grasp of what regular Israelis think, even if they aren't saying that - leads to many insightful posts. Unlike this one lol
I don't see how the chronology is really that pertinent. Right now, there's a big African slum half an hour walk from all the fancy skyscrapers. If hilonim want to run the country, they need to demonstrate proof of concept in their backyard.
The African part is irrelevant. It's been a slum for 10+ years. You could have written the same post 10 years ago, except without mentioning the Eritreans. You seem to think that they're inherent to the problem somehow, but they're really not even very relevant to the issue
I doubt that it's true, but even if it was just as run down as it was now, it's obviously different if it's full of foreigners speaking some unintelligible language. Like, you don't have to be some big Zionist to know that this wasn't part of the plan for the national homeland. Why not just let the Arabs have it and finish?
It is true. If you don't believe me, read the Wikipedia page, ask your friends, or see the other comments. As for the rest of your argument - fine, sure, Jewish homeland, but it's not an argument that you make compellingly in this piece by focusing on an unrelated issue
I walk into my neighborhood Home Depot, mostly foreigners speaking some unintelligible language. Go to a restaurant , same thing. Get an event catered, same thing. It's so not a big deal. I don't know Israel, but if your description of this being some pocket neighborhood is accurate, who cares?
Seriously though there is a broader point here about the israeli left and how it's become less authoritarian and more liberal and based on liberal social issues and attempts to limit executive power. Some could suggest that this change is due to the loss of hegemony by the Israeli left post Begin. A more psychological rather than sociological analysis I think would premise the fact that leftists now attempt to find meanings individually rather than through collective political action. Kimmerling is apt here particularly "The Invention and Decline of Israeliness ". Ben gurion and your 8-6pm secular ashki today just are very different
Some day the unstoppable forces of real estate, gentrification and capitalism will cause the whole area to be redeveloped. Meanwhile, take into account that
1. The Africans have to live and work somewhere, and there are a lot of jobs in Tel Aviv.
2. The Tel Aviv municipality is restricted in their power and means to solve these kinds of problems.
3. Netanyahu's regime purpose is not to solve big national problems, and probably is not capable of it either.
lol you went to the OLD central bus station which is sort of a third world hawkers thunderdome. Great cultural experience but not necessary to do on the regular
Israel avoided 3rd world immigration until the later 2000s because it's crowded, considered a warzone and has a weird language, but Sudan and Eritrea are so bad that they started just walking through Egypt to get here. Bibi built a big fence and it stopped, but the courts won't let him deport the ones who are here.
To be fair, they were supposed to shut down the station in 2023 and tear the whole thing down, but politicking seems to have delayed it to 2027. I think Tel-Aviv is one of the most well run towns in Israel, and I say that as someone who lived on the periphery of that neighborhood for ~5 years. City hall certainly has a bias in caring more about the wealthier neighborhoods in the north, but they always listened to my complaints & sent someone over to clear out the rats or fix things when they were broken. And there’s plenty of great things about living in TA - it’s one of the best places to be a young mother, for example.
I think it’s gotten worse in the past year or so. The open drug use wasn’t anywhere near as normal or prevalent as it is now. Weird shit with homeless people started happening to me on a daily basis, & it was never like that before.
Maybe the idea is to set up a tourism spot for white nationalists to elicit sympathy for Israel?
Surely, secular Ashkenazim are the most anti-racist major constituency in Israel, which is the exact opposite of what you want if “keeping your cities from turning into African slums” is a key concern.
That’s kind of the quandary across the West: the secular intelligentsia is correct in many minor ways - and enjoys the social cachet for their bien pensant beliefs - but incorrect about the core, essential questions.
Yep, that’s about it.
i remember going to that bus station as a kid. it was a shabby area then, long before eritreans started showing up; it was pretty much exactly as shabby when i was last there at the end of 2022. maybe the situation has dramatically worsened since but frankly tel aviv is, for the most part, a kinda shabby place. lots of crumbling plaster and peeling paint and buildings put up hastily in the 1950s. the people who live there seem to like it fine, and tbh it’s got a lot more charm than the aesthetic monstrosities frummers like to live in with loads of white and gold everywhere. also “next door to tottenham” is a very funny way of describing stamford hill
They don't seem to be fine with it round there, since they have all fled
I lived in South Tottenham (north Stamford Hill) for a year and half. I used to walk to/from Seven Sisters Tube station every so often. It was 'diverse', but nothing like this.
“fled” is a bit histrionic. areas around big transport interchanges tend to be vaguely seedy, low-rent, inhabited by transient or menial workers in informal housing. (i should know, i’m gentrifying one now.) used to be that a lot of the people in neve sha’anan were palestinians from gaza overstaying work permits. tel aviv no longer runs on palestinian labour, so now it’s eritreans and sudanese. the fact that there are people who live in these vaguely insalubrious conditions is why nice libs in neve tzedek can get sushi any time on wolt. i don’t like it either but calm down, it’s not the apocalypse.
you’re right that tel aviv bus station is worse than seven sisters tube station. this is because britain is, in general, a cleaner, more orderly, more efficient, and generally better country than israel.
I came here to say this, too. As soon as I got to the words "Tel Aviv Bus Station" I started laughing because I knew exactly where this was going. I had an identical experience, except that mine took place in 2016, and there were zero non-Israelis. The place is and has always been a shithole
This article really does make you (Mr. Non-Zionism) look like you have a major blind spot about Israel, because of your conclusions. The Tel Aviv Bus Station issue is not an immigration issue at all. It predates the immigrants by decades.
Since this is my first comment on your post, I'll add that I've been enjoying your Israel/Palestine stuff. Ironically, most Israelis don't encouter Palestinians in their day-to-day unless they live in the settlements, so your lack of in-person experience with them - and your good grasp of what regular Israelis think, even if they aren't saying that - leads to many insightful posts. Unlike this one lol
I don't see how the chronology is really that pertinent. Right now, there's a big African slum half an hour walk from all the fancy skyscrapers. If hilonim want to run the country, they need to demonstrate proof of concept in their backyard.
The African part is irrelevant. It's been a slum for 10+ years. You could have written the same post 10 years ago, except without mentioning the Eritreans. You seem to think that they're inherent to the problem somehow, but they're really not even very relevant to the issue
I doubt that it's true, but even if it was just as run down as it was now, it's obviously different if it's full of foreigners speaking some unintelligible language. Like, you don't have to be some big Zionist to know that this wasn't part of the plan for the national homeland. Why not just let the Arabs have it and finish?
It is true. If you don't believe me, read the Wikipedia page, ask your friends, or see the other comments. As for the rest of your argument - fine, sure, Jewish homeland, but it's not an argument that you make compellingly in this piece by focusing on an unrelated issue
I walk into my neighborhood Home Depot, mostly foreigners speaking some unintelligible language. Go to a restaurant , same thing. Get an event catered, same thing. It's so not a big deal. I don't know Israel, but if your description of this being some pocket neighborhood is accurate, who cares?
Kapara aleicha. This made me laugh.
Seriously though there is a broader point here about the israeli left and how it's become less authoritarian and more liberal and based on liberal social issues and attempts to limit executive power. Some could suggest that this change is due to the loss of hegemony by the Israeli left post Begin. A more psychological rather than sociological analysis I think would premise the fact that leftists now attempt to find meanings individually rather than through collective political action. Kimmerling is apt here particularly "The Invention and Decline of Israeliness ". Ben gurion and your 8-6pm secular ashki today just are very different
The link in "heretic state" in the caption of the picture just goes to the picture itself.
Thanks, fixed it.
Some day the unstoppable forces of real estate, gentrification and capitalism will cause the whole area to be redeveloped. Meanwhile, take into account that
1. The Africans have to live and work somewhere, and there are a lot of jobs in Tel Aviv.
2. The Tel Aviv municipality is restricted in their power and means to solve these kinds of problems.
3. Netanyahu's regime purpose is not to solve big national problems, and probably is not capable of it either.
lol you went to the OLD central bus station which is sort of a third world hawkers thunderdome. Great cultural experience but not necessary to do on the regular
reads just like Bill Bryson, albeit Israeli and (marginally) more prejudiced. Brilliant!
Refreshing to see Ashkenazi seculars trying to “enrich” Israel in the same way they’ve ghettofied much of Europe and America.
Are the African immigrants Jews, or at least pretend to be?
No.
Israel avoided 3rd world immigration until the later 2000s because it's crowded, considered a warzone and has a weird language, but Sudan and Eritrea are so bad that they started just walking through Egypt to get here. Bibi built a big fence and it stopped, but the courts won't let him deport the ones who are here.
Are they mostly unmarried men?
No
To be fair, they were supposed to shut down the station in 2023 and tear the whole thing down, but politicking seems to have delayed it to 2027. I think Tel-Aviv is one of the most well run towns in Israel, and I say that as someone who lived on the periphery of that neighborhood for ~5 years. City hall certainly has a bias in caring more about the wealthier neighborhoods in the north, but they always listened to my complaints & sent someone over to clear out the rats or fix things when they were broken. And there’s plenty of great things about living in TA - it’s one of the best places to be a young mother, for example.
I think it’s gotten worse in the past year or so. The open drug use wasn’t anywhere near as normal or prevalent as it is now. Weird shit with homeless people started happening to me on a daily basis, & it was never like that before.
> The second message is that seculars need to get their 💩 together, and they need to get it soon.
I know. We're not all like that. Please don't bite me.